May 23rd, 2007What boys need
One of my favorite parenting sites is Ask Moxie. Her simple, sage advice helped me get through crazy ass weeks of sleep deprivation after I went back to work.
She recently wrote a review of a book (The Dangerous Book For Boys) and today, as a follow-up, a list of items that boys should know by the time they become men, and it’s just left a sour taste in my mouth.
1. How to sort and wash laundry properly
2. Writing thank-you notes
3. Tying a necktime
4. Talking your way out of a fistfight
5. Winning a fistfight
6. Ending a date politely without promising to call someone you have no intention of calling
7. Roasting a chicken, making risotto, cooking asparagus, and baking brownies
8. First Aid
9. Driving a Manual Transmission Car
10. The Rules of Soccer
11. Telling a Story Effectively
Are you kidding me? Most of these things I think all people should do before they become adults, or at least by the time they move out of the house. And some of these things I question their usefulness - like tying a necktie. I know plenty of successful people who have survived life without knowing how to tie the neatest ties.
“Roasting a chicken, making risotto, cooking asparagus, and baking brownies” - this appeals to the tastebuds of mine, but you know, there are plenty of perfectly mature men who don’t know how to make those. Those men instead might know how to make dumplings, knead dough for homemade noodles, fry tortillas to make tostadas, and steam eggs to make a breakfast custard.
I don’t profess to be an expert on boys - all I am a pseudo-expert is on my own son. I want so much for him - I want him to grow into a kind, compassionate human being, who chooses his words carefully and with intent, who loves without hesitation and fear, who knows how to function operationally as an adult (cook, clean, etc.), who knows when he needs to learn more and then just does it, and so much more.
If he doesn’t learn, as one of her readers says, “how to choose a diamond,” and isn’t considered an adult because of it, well, than so be it.
May 23rd, 2007 at 11:32 pm
That list is obnoxious. And also so very classist.
May 24th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Yeah, I have to say, my feelings about Moxie have changed dramatically over the past couple posts. I am so disappointed in her, and even though I really do think much of her advice is really strong, it makes me think twice about paying attention to her opinions.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:03 am
Thank you, Casey. It is making me feel better to see other mothers of boys not chiming in with Moxie, because I also found her last few posts to be really obnoxious, and they had me pretty depressed about how boys were being raised by even progressive, feminist parents.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:34 am
While I understand how non-multicultural the list is (and your beef with that), I was really expecting your problems to be more along the lines of “There isn’t more than *this*?”
I have to disagree with you - I feel like everything on this list should be learned by a guy before he becomes an mature adult. While I’m not sure exactly what the author of the list meant (I don’t see it as being exclusively sexist), you have to admit - many men DON’T know how to sort laundry (I’m friends with loads of them), feed themselves (sadly, I’m *related* to some of these), or talk their way out of a fistfight. I think these are hallmarks of mature, intelligent men, who had strong, intelligent mothers and fathers who raised them.
The way I took this list was as thus:
Teach your son to be:
1)Clean and well dressed
2)Courteous
3)Knowledgeable about commonly-accepted business attire
4)Civil, intelligent and aware of his surroundings
5)Able to defend himself from those who are not as civil as he
6)Honest and respectful of women
7)Able to feed himself
8)A good citizen who helps (and has the ability to help) others in need
11) Articulate.
With the exceptions of 9+10, this seems like good things to teach a son. I would imagine the underlying principles I listed above would also be very good to teach a daughter - but I didn’t really see any apparent sexism there as well.
I think you’re right in saying he’ll be an adult, regardless of his skills; that’s something that only takes time and survival. Being a mature, successful and productive member of society and a child you can be proud of? Perhaps some of those traits are required.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:35 am
edit - replace “women” in #6 with “others”.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:34 am
I think posts like Moxie’s stereotype men into the “Hi, I’m a dumbass who can’t fend for myself” type of stereotype.
And the general items on that list I would consider de facto for any adult to learn. Why just men? Don’t women need to know first aid? Don’t women need to know how to talk their way out of a fight? Know how to dress in business attire? Eat healthily? Be polite?
March 11th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
[...] got me through the night (har, har) when Matthew was a baby. I started my sourness on her when that Dangerous Book for Boys came out and she came up with her own list that made my eyes roll madly. But she’s still in [...]
March 16th, 2008 at 8:45 am
how to choose a diamond? EWEWEWEWEW.
EW.
i agree with you and with what Alan said.
I think moxie is operating from a point of retaliation from her dating days. like, i know there was a point in my dating career in my late 20’s when i was like, “wtf? why does it seem like most of these men in their late 20’s don’t know how to do laundry or cook or so any of the things i would consider EVERY adult should know how to do.” and then, when i met my husband i totally gushed to a friend about how he had a full set of pots and pans. and all these guys i dated? i kind of assumed that their parents didn’t teach them things that are considered life skills. maybe i’m being a chauvinist.
sorry! i know this post is a year old! but i just found your blog and I like it.
March 16th, 2008 at 11:23 am
other than numbers 3 and 10, i don’t see anything compellingly wrong with the list. classist? really? if she had suggested that our sons learn how to pull off a gang shooting, now THAT might be classist.
i might add a few ‘minor’ things like: how to be good with money and maintain integrity and optimism while co-supporting a family through a recession, how to change diapers, how to be responsible for birth control….to name a few.